Christine Shreeve Hubbs, a 42-year-old Livermore woman was arrested Thursday on 67 sexual assault charges against two teenage boys. (Livermore Police Department photo)
Hubbs is being held at Santa Rita Jail in Dublin in lieu of $4.3 million bail.
Apparently the mother of one of the boys went to the police after she found a nude photo of Hubbs on her son's cell phone; the boy told police that he began having sex with Hubbs in December 2008, when he was 14.
During the investigation, police learned of a second boy, now 14, had a sexual relationship with Hubbs from December 2009 through July.
Investigators say Hubbs communicated with the teens by text messages and at times used her cell phone to send sexual messages and nude pictures of herself.
The charges involve the concept of statutory rape; sexual activity between an adult and a minor (one below the age of consent). In this case the adult was a woman of course, and the minors involved were (VERY) young teenage males.
I ask how is this a crime - I mean, come on; what we have here is no more than a classic case of Cougarism; the philosophy concerning older women who prey on younger, verile men to fulfill their primal sexual desires.
Granted, in this situation the young men involved (I say men because they are obviously no longer boys) were EXTREMELY young; well beyond society's accepted equation for May-September romantic liaisons (age, divide by two, add seven). In fact, by these standards, I myself became involved in criminal activity under similar circumstances at the age of thirteen.
Grrr, Baby . . .At the same time I acknowledge that if the tables were turned; that is, if the parties involved here were a 42-year-old man and two teenage girls beneath the age of consent, I would be amongst those leading the pack howling for the perpetrator's neck in a noose.
What's good for the Goose is not always good for the Gander . . .Hypocrisy? Perhaps. Again, I ask how is this a crime? Amongst the ancient and traditional societies, it is not unheard of for a young man to be tutored by an older woman in the ways of physical love.
In his play Hippolytus, Euripides tells the story of Phaedra, an older, married woman in love with a much younger man.
A practice that was mentioned by many visitors to Sparta was the practice of “wife-sharing”; in accordance with the Spartan belief that breeding should be between the most physically fit parents, many older men allowed younger more fit men to impregnate their wives.
Even by the liberal standards of their day, Spartan women were particularly open-minded.Aristotle writes:“Someone contacted a Spartan woman to ask if she would agree to let him seduce her. She said: ‘When I was a child I learned to obey my father, and I did so; then when I became a woman I obeyed my husband; so if this man is making me a proper proposal, let him put it to my husband first."
What strikes me here is not so much the crime, but the judicial system's handling of it: bail is set at 1.4 million dollars - isn't this a bit excessive? Especially considering that this occurs in a state where same-sex marriages are endorsed by the governor, marijuana shops are popping up on every street corner and entire cities flout Federal law by openly embracing illegal immigrants.
There are some crimes which are a crime regardless of what the law says. Slavery is a good example; even if it is completely legal - as it was in the United States two hundred years ago - it is still wrong and still a crime against humanity. This is the concept of natural law.
Meee-owww . . .Natural law (Latin: lex naturalis) has been described as a law whose content is set by nature and that therefore has validity everywhere. As classically used, natural law refers to the use of reason to analyze human nature and deduce binding rules of moral behavior.
Cougars are known to hunt in packs. Natural law theories feature greatly in the philosophies of Thomas Aquinas, Thomas Hobbes and John Locke, and have had a profound influence on the development of English common law. Because of the intersection between natural law and natural rights, it has been cited as a component in United States Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States. The essence of Declarationism is that the founding of the United States is based on Natural law.
A cougar about to maul her prey.More to the point of what we are discussing here might be the various sodomy laws still on the books across the United States. Although originally intended to outlaw certain sexual acts between homosexuals, many state's sodomy laws made certain heterosexual acts illegal as well. It is hard to imagine - in this day and age - a single, sexually active person in North America who has not violated some aspect of these laws.
Sodomy laws were invalidated by the 2003 Supreme Court decision Lawrence v. Texas.
Cougarism in the Bible - Genesis chapter 39: Joseph and Potiphar’s Wife (1649 painting by Guercino)The sexual abuse or exploitation of a child is another example of Natural Law. Whether or not endorsed or tolerated by a society it is wrong, outright, anywhere and everywhere it takes place. This is obviously the issue at hand; in today's society thirteen year old males are considered children.
Perhaps I am a little more lenient because I regard the world through a prism of the Classic era; in ancient times a thirteen-year-old male was of military age; a circumstance which continued until at least the Napoleonic era.
Queen of the CougarsOver the course of her 34-year reign, Catherine the Great of Russia racked up an impressive tally of conquests, which ended with Alexandrovich Zubov, a man 40 years younger than her.
Cougarism in popular culture: "Coo, coo, ca-choo, Mrs Robinson."
Go Team!.
I was once the victim of a cougar attack.
ReplyDelete(And lived)
I dreamed of a cougar attack. Alas...
ReplyDeleteEvery teenage boy's fantasy.
ReplyDeleteIt's in the penal code under Felony Selfish.
ReplyDeleteThink of the OTHER desperate housewives out there flyin' solo because she had the entire swim team in the jacuzzi...
As David said every teenage boy's fantasy i know at there age i would not have said no,did any of the boys turn her down?
ReplyDeleteI too was the innocent prey of a cougar. Alas, it ended....
ReplyDeleteHaving three sons, one of who is 14, I have to say I would press charges against a 42 year old woman who seduced him. Seduced being used loosely here as with that age difference it is all about power.
ReplyDeleteNow, if she were some 20-something I could maybe see some leeway there, but there is something seriously wrong with a woman that age preying on a young boy. I could see her going down to 12 and 10 and even younger.
The law should be protecting the minors from PENETRATION!
ReplyDeleteThis is not the case! I see NOTHING wrong with a young boy having intimate courses with a grown-up woman!
I wish this had happened to me when I was at that age, and I really hope that a woman like her meets some day with my son! Fingers crossed!
TRO I reaaly cannot understand what is really your problem! We don't have vaginas, you know!
Hell my Granny got married at the age of twelve. Mother at Sixteen and myself at 19. It seems to me if a woman wants to make love to a boy past the age of thirteen then it's ok with me..
ReplyDeleteSean,
ReplyDeleteThis is a well-written rationalization for an illegal activity that encourages pedophilia in our society. I see your point, but young boys are vulnerable, too naive to protect themselves from the consequences. What if she gave them herpes or another sexually transmitted disease during those 'episodes' of statutory rape? There is another case similar, where the 'cougar' impregnated herself by this behavior. So what then becomes of those children conceived of rape?
This is just more intellectualization of illegal activity. I don't buy your argument.
I basically agree with Tro's statements. There has to be something psychologically wrong if a grown ass woman OR man in their 40s feel the need to prey on a freaking 14 year-old or even younger.
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of hypocrisy in cases like these. Like you said, if a grown man wants to go after a teenage girl, everyone's ready to shout "sex offender" and "death penalty" but if an older woman goes after a younger boy, then she's nothing but a "cougar"...I don't get it nor will I probably ever.
I don't really think it is about power...I think its about loose morals. Our society has flaunted the sanctity of a behavior set revolving around morals. The "if it feels good, do it" crowd has won big time in the USA.
ReplyDeleteAlso, these older women obviously are reaching for some imagined utopia in their lives. And a young hard, stiff d@@@ seems to be high on their list of necessities.
Sad, they probably can't get it good from their hubbies or SO's and they think they can get it from these young boys.
Course when the only rules or standards are "if it feels good, do it" then a life long commitment to your spouse doesn't seem like a great option.
Steve
From first principals- were the boys harmed at all, and if so how? It seems their parents didn't notice any harm- they just found out what had happened. And if the boys have complained we haven't been told of it. If nobody was hurt- then it cannot be wrong.
ReplyDeleteAnd I would apply the same approach were the sexes reversed- sure the risk of harm in the form of an unintended pregnancy would be greater, but anyone who believes females to be incapable of making their own minds up, or too weak to bear the consequences of their own decisions has never really got to know any- sure plenty put on that act if they think it'll work but it is only an act.
I don't know why the age of consent was set in America- but in England it was to enable prosecution of "Gentlemen" making use of young girls coerced into prostitution. Since the girls would also be coerced into expressing willingness, and both the Madams and the clients would testify to their willingness, the introduction of an age of consent removed the practical difficulty involved in prosecuting for rape. The intention was to stop forced sex- which worked, but at the cost of having a law whose actual purpose would be lost in time.
There is precious little reason to believe in this case that the boys were coerced so this is someone taking an already perverted law and perverting it further, nominally in the cause of equality, but really to gain status for the prosecutors.
"From first principals- were the boys harmed at all, and if so how? It seems their parents didn't notice any harm- they just found out what had happened. And if the boys have complained we haven't been told of it. If nobody was hurt- then it cannot be wrong."
ReplyDeleteThere is no way in hell a 14 year old boy or girl an give informed consent. Rationalize it all you wish and fall back on a bunch of Penthouse Letter fantasies, but a 42 year old woman having sex with a 14 year old boy is wrong. Creepy wrong.
And that statement "If nobody was hurt- then it cannot be wrong" is just borderline creepy when it comes to the seduction of a barely teen boy by some obviously unstable old woman.
Those ancient societies allowed women to marry at twelve, and would consider a father who married a 14 year old daughter to a 42 year old lawyer to have made a very good match for her.
ReplyDeletePedophilia, from what I understand, refers to desire to have sex with a minor who is pre-pubescent. Obviously, these boys were pretty darn pubescent; they performed to her satisfaction. Also, apparently, to theirs.
ReplyDeleteWe cheapen pedophilia to call this that. Piss poor judgment on her part, obviously. But it is not pedophilia.
Geez. My wife just turned 47 and is a LOT better looking than that. Since today is our 23rd anniversary, I think there is no better time to say it.
ReplyDeleteBefore you ask: The 23rd anniversary is the spend-the-day-running-around-because-school-starts-tomorrow-and-we're-beat anniversary.
Having been seduced by a 39 year old "cougar" when I was 13, I admit it was exciting and fine with me at the time. Ultimately though, I understood its significance and know now that from that day onwards, I had lost much of my childhood. Later, since becoming a parent myself many years ago, I used this experience to motivate my instilling the need for my kids to stay kids for as long as they could. Don't try to grow up too fast because when you start living the life of an adult, you can never go back. At 13, having slept with a woman who was 4 years older than my mother, I found little joy in childhood activities for I was fixated upon adult conquest.
ReplyDeleteLock the bitch up.....jd
AT a relatively young age, a somewhat older woman taught we what women like.
ReplyDeleteWhich was somewhat different to what young bloke my age THOUGHT they liked.
Win-win...
Translation of last comment: "Really good article gained a lot thanks for sharing."
ReplyDeleteOf all the wacko comments, that one takes the cake!
Just wanted to throw something out here. Until the law was amended, the crime of statutory rape did not occur when the woman was older than the man. In Michael M. v. Superior Court of Sonoma County, the US Supreme Court upheld the California Supreme Court's decision that it was permissible for the law to only penalize men for intercourse/sexual acts with a minor female child.
ReplyDeleteThe ruling and the law were upheld under the strict scrutiny test. Strict scrutiny is the highest level of review. Essentially, California had to prove that there was a compelling interest in the law as it was written. The Justices of both the US Supreme Court and the California Supreme Court both agreed with the State's contention that it was necessary for the law to exist as it did because it served the purpose of trying to prevent illegitimate pregnancies.
The decision came down in 1981. I am not sure when the law was actually amended tho. But it is interesting in light of some of the arguments that you made.
Never having had a son, I can't really speak from personal experience - THAT said, we recently had a {physically close} neighbor {32 year old woman} convicted of child molestation of a 15 year old boy - other neighbors {about a block away} would NOT permit their son near OUR house unaccompanied by an family member adult - the son is 12, but LOOKS about 9-10 - he has learning disabilities, which would put him at a disadvantage to someone intent on manipulating him - so, I understand the protectiveness of his family. As a survivor of sexual abuse, I believe ANYONE older who uses a child for their own gratification should be hanged, drawn & quartered ......................
ReplyDeleteSemper Fi'
DM
It saddens me to think that by now my cougar would have to over ninety.
ReplyDeleteBut still welcome!
There's nothing wrong with an older woman educating young boys in this way. A 14 yr old boy desparately wants sex, but almost always has to be satisfied with his hand. A 14 yr old girl is simply different. She neither wants nor is ready for sex in the same way. Also she can get pregnant. That's why we vigorously prosecute older men who prey on 14 yr old girls. But older women who seduce boys are simply giving them a delicious treat. The women who can't understand this opinion have never been 14 yr old boys....so of course they can't understand it.
ReplyDelete