Monday, October 22, 2012


Interesting . . . S.L.

Jeff Black, NBC News

Both volunteers in a study to see if women could become Marine ground combat leaders have dropped out of the rigorous Infantry Officer Course, with the second failing because of a medical reason late last week, Marine Corps Times reported.

A second lieutenant was unable to complete the required training and left the program on Friday because of unreported medical reasons, the newspaper reported on its website. It was unknown if she became ill or injured or had other medical issues.

Inquiries from NBC News into her condition were not immediately returned by the Marine Corps.

The other female volunteer, who was also a second lieutenant, was unable to complete the introductory endurance test and dropped out – along with nearly 30 men – on Sept. 28. The program, run at the Marine base at Quantico, Va., is considered the toughest course in the Marine Corps.

Read the rest of it HERE

This is what I have to say about it:

Strapping on an F-15 and zooming around, or pulling guard duty on perimeter with 40 lbs of cool-looking scare gear, is not the same thing as serving in the Infantry.

The entire concept of putting women into the Combat Arms is the epitome of folly. This concept has been gaining traction steadily since the late 80's, based on the notion of fairness - i.e. in order for women officers to gain access to the highest levels of command.

Two things:

The purpose of the military has nothing to do with ill-concieved concepts of fairness and / or political correctness. The modern day battlefield is the most lethal, unforgiving environment in the history of humankind. It is not that women are physically disadvantaged against men; women bring a host of unnecessary challenges with them; not least of all a sanitary issue, but also emotional baggage, etcetera.

Somewhere out there the woman exists who can benchpress more than I can, and who can ruckmarch farther, faster, and with a heavier load than me. I don't necessarily want to meet her.

And that leads to the second thing:

There is something almost sacred about the bond that exists within the Infantry squad. Grunts eat together, sleep together, shit shower and shave together, in the most extreme conditions imaginable. When you work together on a team like this for any length of time, there comes a point where you can identify your compadres - in the dark even - from their individual walk. A collective consciousness emerges, where the squad moves and operates as a single, many-bodied entity. To insert a woman into this mix would be an absolutely disruptive measure on so many levels.

Instead of exploring ways to allow the weaker sex a participatory role in combat, we should constantly strive to up the physical and mental standards of the Infantry and other combat arms MOS's.

Apparently, I am not the only one who thinks this way:

Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal!

As a company grade 1302 combat engineer officer with 5 years of active service and two combat deployments, one to Iraq and the other to Afghanistan, I was able to participate in and lead numerous combat operations. In Iraq as the II MEF Director, Lioness Program, I served as a subject matter expert for II MEF, assisting regimental and battalion commanders on ways to integrate female Marines into combat operations. I primarily focused on expanding the mission of the Lioness Program from searching females to engaging local nationals and information gathering, broadening the ways females were being used in a wide variety of combat operations from census patrols to raids. In Afghanistan I deployed as a 1302 and led a combat engineer platoon in direct support of Regimental Combat Team 8, specifically operating out of the Upper Sangin Valley. My platoon operated for months at a time, constructing patrol bases (PBs) in support of 3d Battalion, 5th Marines; 1st Battalion, 5th Marines; 2d Reconnaissance Battalion; and 3d Battalion, 4th Marines. This combat experience, in particular, compelled me to raise concern over the direction and overall reasoning behind opening the 03XX field. Who is driving this agenda? I am not personally hearing female Marines, enlisted or officer, pounding on the doors of Congress claiming that their inability to serve in the infantry violates their right to equality. Shockingly, this isn’t even a congressional agenda. This issue is being pushed by several groups, one of which is a small committee of civilians appointed by the Secretary of Defense called the Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Service (DACOWITS). Their mission is to advise the Department of Defense (DoD) on recommendations, as well as matters of policy, pertaining to the well-being of women in the Armed Services from recruiting to employment. Members are selected based on their prior military experience or experience with women’s workforce issues. I certainly applaud and appreciate DACOWITS’ mission; however, as it pertains to the issue of women in the infantry, it’s very surprising to see that none of the committee members are on active duty or have any recent combat or relevant operational experience relating to the issue they are attempting to change.
* * *
Having said all this, I say there is a place for women in Special Operations - in fact, they are already there. This is a different set of challenges - albeit related - and a different environment. In SpecOps, women represent the potential of the Female Warrior; in fact, they serve as an incredibly deadly secret weapon. Women have also served as snipers in the Israeli and Russian military, but evidence suggests that this was more due to sheer logistics - the need for bodies on the battlefield - than an any percieved inherent feminine advantage when it comes to marksmanship.
I have no doubt how much carnage this pack of Amazons can unleash. That is also besides the point. The Infantry and the Special Forces ODA must remain the Last Boys Club Carrying exotic weapons and gear and participating in unique missions is night and day away from the day-to-day physical, mental and emotional challenges of an Infantry unit on patrol. Anybody who has served in the Infantry knows what I am talking about. - STORMBRINGER SENDS


  1. Infantry, ODA's yeah as well as SEAL Plts, CCT's and even SB Dets gotta be "boys clubs". Full stop.
    Gotta love that Engineer Captain telling the truth. Wonder how her career will turn out? USMC is pretty intolerant of truth telling when it doesn't fit.
    Boat Guy

  2. Sean, The problem as I see it is; forces inside this country want our armed forces broken. This is just another step down that road.

  3. The news also demonstrates that the Marines haven't lowered their standards for infantry a whit. Semper Fi!

    As long as that remains true, I don't give a rat's rear end about to whom they issue an 03XX/11B MOS.
    So-called "affirmative action" always taints anyone afterwards with suspicions they were let in under the fence. Maintain the standards, and the other nonsense becomes essentially self-sorting.


  4. Searching for the one woman in a thousand who could be an ordinary grunt is not economical. This is an agenda. Same as spending millions to shrink a fighter cockpit to fit a sub 5 foot anyone.

  5. This is one of the extreme follies of socialism. Women are not wired physically for infantry duty. Men are not wired mentally to treat women equally in the infantry. Men will tend to sacrifice themselves overprotecting said women because the men will not be as comfortable relying on the women to be able to equally handle themselves and the mission. This is in our genes and it is difficult/impossible to overcome. The need to overcome these genetics should not be forced on infantrymen by political correctness.

  6. From a Female point of view: i think the one reason Females want to be part of the "Boys Club",respect of those who only see us as that a woman, despite what we do now in the military as TomR put men are men they will also treat us such, little girls, butt hurt females. Its not that we are butt hurt b/c we cant join the fight its b/c we do not get the recognition that men do. we are doing a job that most women in the US can not or will not do. And we do not get recognized for it. That i think is one reason that some females want to be a grunt or at least try for it. I may only be a cook/admin but i damn good at my job. I work for my rank and the job i have now is never commended even tho I am only a SGT i play the commander and 1st SGT, I support 40 people all male unit. But b/c i am not their MOS i do not get the recgonition they do even tho I run 6 units,my theory, If others saw what we saw and realized how hard some of ustruley work and actually love being a Soldier, then maybe we wouldn't be trying so hard to be one the boys. God bless and stay safe

  7. I didn't join the military or choose my mos (11B) for recognition. I joined because I love my country and wanted to serve. End of story.


  8. I truly appreciate how you’ve worded your material in this article. I am very impressed with this information and you’ve managed to keep it interesting.

    Marine course

  9. On the contrary: Women do not have the upper body strength for sustained combat, period. Even those very few who have some sort of above average strength for a woman, will come short in a warrior stress situation. Come on, we have all grown up with women and we know their limitations.

    Have the Marines dumbed down their training to accommodate women, like the Army - Yes they have. Marines exiting the Corps will tell you how rifle training has now deleted knowledge of how to use "iron sights", to accommodate women; Marine Flight Training has also been accommodated to women's potential, and many marines have complained that women are now given preferences in rank, meritorious awards, etc.

    No doubt, the Marines are still the best, but its a "fact" they have dumbed down their requirements, and now depend on "high tech", which in a real coming war with Russia and China, will end up working against them. - Jarheadusmc/Viet Vet.

  10. Throughout the entire military there are moa's that women I don't nessassarly feel are emotionally or physically ready for. Take Seals, Rangers, Infantry, ODA's, Scout Snipers, CCT's.

  11. But also I believe that if a woman does come along that can hack it, she'll have my blessing